Knite (1:51:59 PM): the xbox hard drive thing is bullcrap
bapenguin (1:52:05 PM): eh
Knite (1:52:07 PM): the biggest trump card they had
bapenguin (1:52:08 PM): the more I think about it
bapenguin (1:52:15 PM): the more I think it’s a marketing ploy
bapenguin (1:52:23 PM): all the press is now reporting the launch price as 299
bapenguin (1:52:39 PM): and saying that 399 gets you a xbox with all the peripherals
bapenguin (1:52:47 PM): i think you aren’t going to see very many of the 299 versions
bapenguin (1:52:54 PM): like…10% of the total might be that
Knite (1:52:59 PM): It doesn’t matter
Knite (1:53:18 PM): because why would developers, who are already constantly under time crunches, even program ANYTHING to use the hard drive?
bapenguin (1:53:27 PM): because microsoft makes it easy for them
bapenguin (1:53:29 PM): that’s why
Knite (1:53:47 PM): 10 hours of development still costs the same as 10 hours of development
Knite (1:54:14 PM): if you can trim 10 hours , and broadcast to 100%, why would you spend 10 hours to eliminate your clientele by 10%?
bapenguin (1:54:18 PM): yeah, but if it would take 20 hours to develop a caching routine, or 20 minutes to put in the code for something in the API
bapenguin (1:54:30 PM): that’s the difference
bapenguin (1:54:39 PM): the API would be smart
bapenguin (1:54:50 PM): this was something that actually came out months ago that we talked about
Knite (1:55:03 PM): But again, why spend the 20 minutes there when something else needs to be done, which would eliminate some possible purchasers?
Knite (1:55:11 PM): And that’s only relating to caching
bapenguin (1:55:18 PM): because ADDING the feature increases purchases
bapenguin (1:55:32 PM): you are still trying to make a decent product
bapenguin (1:55:37 PM): not EVERY dev house is EA
Knite (1:55:58 PM): hahaha
Knite (1:56:05 PM): I’m not even going by EA, just my own thoughts
bapenguin (1:56:17 PM): and caching was all the previous one was used for…and even then it wasn’t used that often apparantly
Knite (1:56:25 PM): The reason the Hard Drive in the Xbox was used so heavily, was that everyone had one
Knite (1:56:36 PM): with it optional, I don’t see how this won’t turn into a PS2 HD adapter.
bapenguin (1:56:41 PM): but apparantly it wasn’t used that heavily…except for custom soundtracks
bapenguin (1:56:43 PM): and saved games
bapenguin (1:56:52 PM): which now you can stream off your iPod, PSP, PC, etc
Knite (1:57:15 PM): (shit, I can’t even get wireless working first attempt…. damnit…. lol)
bapenguin (1:57:58 PM): It may turn into the PS2 adapter thing….but…I still think most of it is a launch stunt
bapenguin (1:58:12 PM): the PS2 adapter was never made available in mass
Knite (1:58:41 PM): That’s because there wasn’t a demand for it
Knite (1:58:46 PM): because it wasn’t used for anything
bapenguin (1:58:57 PM): not like that
Knite (1:58:58 PM): Again, why program to use it when many people can’t?
Knite (1:59:06 PM): Also, think about it from a non-EA angle
bapenguin (1:59:19 PM): the PS2 adapter was never made available in mass because it was marketed with a game that very few console players cared about
Knite (1:59:25 PM): a LOT of purchasers, such as College Students, and Parents, are going to go buy the Xbox360
Knite (1:59:35 PM): and are going to say… here’s one for 299, here’s one for 399
Knite (1:59:41 PM): well they both play the same games right?
Knite (1:59:43 PM): 299 it is.
bapenguin (1:59:47 PM): but that’s not what’s going to happen
bapenguin (1:59:53 PM): they are going to say, here it is it’s 399
bapenguin (1:59:56 PM): because the 299 one isn’t in stock
bapenguin (2:00:12 PM): just watch
bapenguin (2:00:49 PM): http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050817/tc_nm/microsoft_dc
bapenguin (2:01:02 PM): it’s all about the market appearance
Knite (2:01:41 PM): I agree marketing has a lot to do with it
Knite (2:01:49 PM): but if you’re going to announce a non hard drive version
Knite (2:01:54 PM): you have to eventually HAVE one
bapenguin (2:02:02 PM): think about this too….what was one of the big things Microsoft was pushing with the 360
Knite (2:02:06 PM): and if you HAVE one, you’re splitting the Xbox360 users into the Haves and Have Nots.
bapenguin (2:02:12 PM): Microtransactions right?
bapenguin (2:02:31 PM): gotta have some storage device for that
Knite (2:02:33 PM): and that’s got to be saved somewhere
Knite (2:02:36 PM): yep
bapenguin (2:03:05 PM): they know what they are doing
bapenguin (2:03:18 PM): they need to have the biggest market possible for that to work
Knite (2:03:48 PM): Yes, and the biggest market possible would be to have 1 hardware configuration, to not confuse the customer
bapenguin (2:03:58 PM): i agree with that
bapenguin (2:04:10 PM): but like I said…I think when it comes down to the reality of it
bapenguin (2:04:18 PM): you aren’t going to see too many of the 299 units
Knite (2:04:27 PM): But you are still going to see SOME
Knite (2:04:35 PM): which means developers must take that into account when creating games
Knite (2:04:46 PM): and I go back to, why spend more time for less audience?
bapenguin (2:04:52 PM): you have it reveresed
bapenguin (2:04:59 PM): if 90 xboxes have a hard drive
bapenguin (2:05:03 PM): and 10 xboxes don’t
bapenguin (2:05:22 PM): you aren’t spending time for less of an audience
bapenguin (2:05:24 PM): in fact
bapenguin (2:05:30 PM): by putting in features that REQUIRE the hard drive
bapenguin (2:05:35 PM): it is actually beneficial to MS
bapenguin (2:05:42 PM): because now they sell a 99 dollar peripheral
Knite (2:05:45 PM): And detremental to the consmer
Knite (2:05:49 PM): which is my whole point
bapenguin (2:06:03 PM): i thought your point is that we won’t get as good of games
bapenguin (2:06:13 PM): which I’m saying it’s not going to always be the case
Knite (2:06:45 PM): First off, if a developer makes a program that requires a hard drive, then they’ve just limited thier user base. Which in today’s age of big publishers and multi-million dollar production sequal fests, won’t be a common choice
bapenguin (2:07:19 PM): lets go back to a recent press annoucnement….
Knite (2:07:28 PM): keep in mind, you’re going by the assumption that most people will buy the more expensive one.
bapenguin (2:07:43 PM): Microsoft announced that fund that gives kickbacks to developers to help aid in development costs
bapenguin (2:07:56 PM): so now they have this fund…company X is making a huge sequel
bapenguin (2:08:06 PM): they want to have this feature that requires a hard drive
bapenguin (2:08:13 PM): they MARKET it as requiring the hard drive with MS’s aid
bapenguin (2:08:21 PM): run some kind of special
bapenguin (2:08:23 PM): save 10 bucks on the HD
bapenguin (2:08:46 PM): you gotta look at it from both sides…sure there’s going to be cases of LCD
bapenguin (2:08:55 PM): but there’s going to be cases on the other end of the spectrum
bapenguin (2:09:07 PM): and in those cases of LCD…were they going to use the hard drive anyway if they were trying to cut costs?
bapenguin (2:09:13 PM): probably not
bapenguin (2:09:19 PM): using the hard drive was never required
Knite (2:10:56 PM): cases of LCD?
bapenguin (2:11:05 PM): lowest common denominator
Knite (2:11:12 PM): ah
bapenguin (2:11:17 PM): heh
Knite (2:11:41 PM): in the case of LCD, they might have still used the hard drive because it may have made something easier for them by doing so
Knite (2:11:45 PM): now, no matter what, it’s not.
bapenguin (2:12:19 PM): could be
bapenguin (2:12:50 PM): the more I thought about it, the more I think people are making a bigger deal than it is
bapenguin (2:13:15 PM): of course….if the 399 model isn’t dominant
bapenguin (2:13:21 PM): then the whole argument is moot
bapenguin (2:13:32 PM): but from what I read…most people think its’ all about the 399 model
Knite (2:14:02 PM): But like I said, just by having the split, no matter the percentages, still causes the same schism in “model”
Knite (2:18:00 PM): Never underestimate the power of LCD
Knite (2:18:01 PM): hehehe
Knite (2:19:05 PM): I still just fail to see how this will not be the bomb that the Ps2 HD was
Knite (2:19:17 PM): and Microsoft needs enough “different”
bapenguin (2:19:23 PM): because…the PS2 HD was never marketed as a system feature
Knite (2:19:26 PM): to try to hit directly at Dony
bapenguin (2:19:33 PM): the PS2 HD was marketed as something needed to play FFXI
bapenguin (2:19:55 PM): if they marketed the HD as the same style peripheral as the HD for the original XBox
bapenguin (2:20:06 PM): custom sndtrk ability, saved game, faster loading etc
bapenguin (2:20:09 PM): people would have bought it
bapenguin (2:20:17 PM): it’s completely different
Knite (2:21:38 PM): It would have been tough to market that way because the PS2 did not have an integrated HD, so current games would NOT have had those features, and future ones likely would not have
bapenguin (2:22:09 PM): you don’t need to have the games have that feature
bapenguin (2:22:15 PM): just like the new xbox is going to work
bapenguin (2:22:19 PM): you have it happen at an OS level
bapenguin (2:22:41 PM): think about it, Sony could have said, “have custom soundtracks in ANY game”
Knite (2:23:30 PM): if our developers use that feature…
Knite (2:23:33 PM): hehe
Knite (2:24:28 PM): In a battle between an established commodity, and an upstart, the upstart needs to do lots to prove its worth (such as hyundai did with their 10 year warranties. Now those cars are winning quality awards)
Knite (2:24:58 PM): by taking away a standard feature from a previous generation, and also one of the selling points they previously had, and especially splitting the market with that decision
Knite (2:25:14 PM): just doesn’t strike me as a very smart idea.
bapenguin (2:25:33 PM): the only thing they are taking away is that you can’t say, “the xbox 360 doesn’t need memory cards”
bapenguin (2:25:37 PM): other than that…you aren’t losing anything
Knite (2:25:42 PM): I still think it will comprimise games in a small way, and definitely confuse and be worse for consumers.
Knite (2:26:34 PM): I dunno. I love having my custom soundtracks, paintable cars, tons of rosters, and only 1 memory card
Knite (2:26:40 PM): as opposed to my PS2 which I’ve had as many as 5
Knite (2:26:50 PM): and couldn’t do the soundtracks
bapenguin (2:27:00 PM): you can do soundtracks
bapenguin (2:27:05 PM): even without a hd
Knite (2:27:14 PM): if I had an ipod or something
Knite (2:27:16 PM): but I do not
bapenguin (2:27:17 PM): or a PC
bapenguin (2:27:26 PM): which you do
bapenguin (2:27:26 PM):
Knite (2:27:33 PM): stream over the wireless while trying to play on live?
Knite (2:27:35 PM): I already lag
Knite (2:27:36 PM): lol
Knite (2:28:00 PM): ok, how about this for a flipside
Knite (2:28:13 PM): tell me one GOOD thing that comes out of them splitting the market like this?
bapenguin (2:28:27 PM): they MAY get more customers
bapenguin (2:28:30 PM): other than that, nothing
Knite (2:28:35 PM): EXACTLY
bapenguin (2:28:40 PM): but
bapenguin (2:28:48 PM): i don’t think it’s as negative as everyone thinks
Knite (2:29:08 PM): But the idea is to get as many new customers as possible
bapenguin (2:29:22 PM): right….and you know hwat
bapenguin (2:29:23 PM): what
bapenguin (2:29:26 PM): that’s probably why they did this
bapenguin (2:29:35 PM): to one up sony
bapenguin (2:29:38 PM): it’s all Sony’s fault
bapenguin (2:29:40 PM): fuckers
bapenguin (2:29:41 PM):
Knite (2:29:42 PM): and if I don’t have a reason to get the Xbox360 over the PS3… why get the 360?
Knite (2:29:46 PM): How’s this one up the Ps3?
Knite (2:29:51 PM): it becomes MORE like the PS3
bapenguin (2:29:51 PM): because it’s out first
Knite (2:29:58 PM): It was out first anyway
bapenguin (2:29:59 PM): it’s out before x-mas
Knite (2:30:07 PM): it was out before Xmas anyway
Knite (2:30:11 PM): that has nothing to do with the HD
bapenguin (2:30:19 PM): right…but to the average consumer
bapenguin (2:30:22 PM): it had nothing to do with the HD either
bapenguin (2:30:33 PM): the average consumer is just going to see that they can get a 299 XBox 360
Knite (2:30:54 PM): Exactly.
Knite (2:31:02 PM): that was my point exactly
bapenguin (2:31:09 PM): and then when it’s not available
Knite (2:31:16 PM): they will wait
bapenguin (2:31:18 PM): and little Johnny is all he wanted for x-mas
bapenguin (2:31:21 PM): they will buy the 399
Knite (2:31:26 PM): just like I did for my video card because I didn’t want to spend 400 bucks
bapenguin (2:31:30 PM): trust me…i’ve worked in retail over xmas
bapenguin (2:31:34 PM): people do anything for their damn kids
bapenguin (2:31:38 PM): and will spend anything
bapenguin (2:31:48 PM): i was already offered 500 bucks for a PS2 one x-mas whil eworking at EB
bapenguin (2:31:57 PM): she thought we horded them
bapenguin (2:32:01 PM): even though we said they weren’t in stock
Knite (2:32:56 PM): There’s still lots of people that decide one or the other though
Knite (2:33:05 PM): hell, even the dreamcast was sold out when it first came out
Knite (2:33:11 PM): with people paying extra cash
Knite (2:33:15 PM): lot of good that did Sega
bapenguin (2:33:32 PM): well whatever
bapenguin (2:33:37 PM): i’m still getting one on launch day
bapenguin (2:33:44 PM): as will 2 million other people
bapenguin (2:34:01 PM): and I’ll get a PS3 on launch day probably too
bapenguin (2:34:03 PM):
Knite (2:34:06 PM): LOL
Knite (2:34:14 PM): I dunno if I want both consoles this gen
bapenguin (2:34:25 PM): stop lying to yourself
Knite (2:34:28 PM): My ps2 has sat in the dust for over a year, only pulled out for GT4…
Knite (2:34:43 PM): I’m serious!
bapenguin (2:34:50 PM): no…you’re just trying to lie to yourself
Knite (2:35:05 PM): Unless both sides have tons of exclusives that I “must have”
bapenguin (2:35:06 PM): X game will come out…and you’ll say…. “oooh shiny…but I don’t have Y console….I must buy it now”
bapenguin (2:35:14 PM):
bapenguin (2:35:21 PM): the sooner you come to terms with that
Knite (2:35:25 PM): But how often does tHAT happen anymore? =)
bapenguin (2:35:27 PM): the easier it is on this relationship